The rear wheel drive Nissans are absolute classics in their own right, and a gold-mine for anyone wanting to build a fast, reliable, good-handling car, either for road, track or drifting.
Nissan RB25DET
Nissan SR20DET
There are the six cylinder cars- Skyline, Laurel and Cefiro, and the four cylinder cars – Sylvia, 200SX, 180 SX, all available with and without turbo.
The sixes (the RB’s) come on 2 litre 2.5 litre, 2.6 litre (the Godzilla) and 3 litre (Aussie Nissans and Holdens) It is possible to build a RB30DET by taking an aussie 3 litre block and fitting an RB25DET head. It is common to fir bigger turbos, and some phenomenal power outputs can be achieved.
The fours (SR’s) are no slouches either- conversions of a DE to a DET by fitting a turbo are common, as is fitting bigger turbos.
The suspensions on all of these cars is basically sound from the get-go, and respond well to fitment of adjustable platform struts (coil-overs), adjustable camber arms, caster bars, etc.
The braking systems can generally be interchanged- the bigger brakes come with 5 stud hubs.
Front Intercoolers are commonly fitted, and often holes cut in the inner guards for Intercooler ducts.
There is a problem with later, “frontal impact” cars- no LVV Certifier can test the crash performance of a car, so cannot approve anything that affects frontal impact. We heard of a man who bought an intercooler kit from Japan, and followed the instructions to modify the front siderails to make it fit. He ended up having to have the whole front of his car re-built with new side-rails. If your car is fitted with airbags, or is later than about 1997, check FIRST with your LVV Certifier
John Brett Technology Ltd. Ph 0800 LOWVOLUME (0800 569865)
Hi, just a question.
I have a toyota windom with a 3.0 V6 motor in it. If I sourced a motor from another toyota which is the 2.5 litre 6 cylinder twin turbo and put it in my car would this have to be certed? Can you Please provide a list of all modifications that require certification as this is going to be on ehell of a project. Thanks, John
Hi John-
Yes that mod would need to be Certed, and I can’t see much of a problem with it.
List of all items that need to be Certed are here- http://www.lvvta.org.nz/CertThresholdScheduleApril04V3.pdf
All mods on a car have to be Certed at the time
Regards
John
Hey John,
I have a mazda b6t FWD 323 wagon 1989 model, i’m planning to take this 100kw turbo engine out of this wagon and place it in a non-turbo mazda 323 sedan 4WD 1995 model which currently has a 79kw b6 engine. No modification to the mounts or engine bay is required (same engine block and head, just a turbo bolted on basically and a lower compression ratio) (4wd gearbox bolts straight up to). I was wanting to know if anything needed upgrading in the way of brakes or anything else before i get a cert for it. The rest of the the 1995 mazda sedan is straight stock standard. Also how much does a cert cost? And is there a cost to re-do it if you fail the first time?
Hi Nicholas
Sounds like a pretty straightforward Certification. The LVV Requirements for brakes is to perform 3 stops from 100 kph, I think that your standard brakes would cope, although if you could get a set of the bigger brakes now would be a good time to fit them.
At John Brett Technology (Low Volume Vehicle Certification) we aske that you present the car in a WOF condition- and recommend that you get a WOF check done first to be sure. That way you are likely to get a pass on the first LVV Inspection. We don’t charge extra if a recheck is needed, but obviously don’t want to be doing repeated re-checks for WOF items. Phone us on 0800 LOWVOLUME to discuss prices, and appointments available.
Sorry another random question!
I have a 94 s1 R33 skyline…..Was a GTS25.. but have bolted on a turbo and supporting fuel mods & management…..dyno shows 201.5 HP ATW currently but only because of missfire at 10 pounds of boost….Factory states 180Hp for the N/A. Do you think the brakes will be sufficient for cert? I really dont want to mess around getting new rims and tyres to suit a 5 stud conversion.
I thought that a GTS25 had a turbo from standard?
Brakes on all of these Nissans are all good. The LVV Cert requires 3 stops from 100 to 0. Your car should be fine without upgrade.
Thank-you for the promp reply!
The GTS25 came out as a non-turbo model of the GTS25T, with 4stud hubs instead of 5, and the Weaker rb20DET varient gearbox. Hopefully everything else will be upto spec aswell. I understand That I will also need to fit a catalyctic (sp?) converter and catch can to pass??
Another slight worry i have is the chassis rails (or what i think are chassis rails) seem to have been crushed in ever so slightly on both sides in the same place, almost as though someone has hit a speed bump and bottomed out? Will this be an issue? It never has been with WOF’s…..
Hi- Thanks for putting me straight about models. We have to meet an emission standard, which means that you need the POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATION SYSTEM left in place, and no catch-can. (Why do people want to put Catch cans on engines?) As you are not changing the engine, we do not need to require a Cat, or to do the on-road emission test.
The Chassis / floor rails damage needs to meet WOF requirements- so will probably be OK
Hi,
I’ve recently had some bucket seats fitted to my Nissan Skyline 1989 R32 GTST and wondering about the certification process for these… They have been put together using aftermarket base brackets as well as aftermarket rails however have retained the factory mounting positions and the seat belts have not been altered in any way other then changing the seat beat clip in pint from the standard seat to the after market base bracket mounting point. Is this alright?
Cheers.
The problem area is in the strength of the seatbelt mounting- the load on the buckle is 15 Kilonewtons (about 1 1/2 tonnes force). The standard rails are tested to this load, but with aftermarket rails there is no certainty that they are strong enough. Any welding also comes into question. If in any doubt, you should bracket the seatbelt buckle directly to the floor mount, using 40 x 3 flat steel strip.
Great post, you seem to know your stuff. I did find a few points that I was unsure about, but thanks to Google I now understand your points fully.
hi have a 1985 mazda bongo with a 12a rotary fitted what problems will i run into for a cert with the emission standard as this motor runs a pre mix fuel and oil
Hi Sam- I have done emission tests of 12A rotaries, and been able to pass them. I have never done one with Oil premix, so I don’t know how it will work out. The best advice I can give is to get it tuned properly, so there is minimal unburnt hydrocarbons coming out of the exhaust. A good tuning shop with an exhaust gas analyser would be able to help.
Is it true that you dont require a cat if you are a member of a racing motor sport club.Saw in item 5:9 i think it is that states:-
A low volume vehicle is not required to be fitted with a catalytic converter if the vehicle is designed and operated primarily for motor-sport activities, and runs on leaded or racing fuel, and:
(a) the vehicle owner is a member of a national motor-sporting regulatory body recognized by the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association (Inc); and
(b) the vehicle owner holds a current and valid competition driving license issued by a national motor-sporting regulatory body recognized by the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association (Inc); and
(c) a current and valid competition logbook has been issued for the vehicle by a national motor-sporting regulatory body recognized by the Low Volume Vehicle Technical Association (Inc).
You are exactly right! Well done for doing the research first. What sort of vehicle is it? what engine is it?
was wondering if it was required to get a cert if i have swapped a rb25det with its 0riganal rb20det into an r32gtst???
Yes- definately requires a Cert. See the LVVTA Modification Threshold Document http://www.lvvta.org.nz/CertThresholdScheduleApril04V3.pdf
Note also that Driveshaft safety loops will be required, also a Catalytic Converter will be required if the engine has been fitted since 1 May 2010.
i have a hilux with a 5MGE supra engine on the standard bolts and mounts how much would this cost to cert?
Hi Angus- Approx cost about $500.00 depending on what other mods there are. Best idea to phone us, on 0800 LOWVOLUME (0800 569865) if you in or near Auckland.
Hey there i have a 1993 r32 nissan skyline that came out as a standard Rb20DE, it was made into a rb20de+T but was heavily modifyed and got about 300hp out of it, of course the non turbo engine couldnt handle this and it blew up, so iv had a genuine rb20DET put in, i was woundering if you could please tell me what i will need to do in order to pass cert??
thanks.
Hi- this is a pretty common conversion- with no big Certification problems. Was it Certified with the converted motor? If it was, then there is no need for a new Cert, as you have just done a “Repair” by changing the engine same for same.
If it was NOT Certed, then to get Certed you will need – two driveshaft loops, and a Catalytic Converter. Brakes are usually OK whether standard or changed, any suspension or wheel changes have be Certed, any seat changes. Phone us on 0800 LOWVOLUME (0800 569865).
hi, i have a holden vl rb30e and have just put a turbo on and was wondring what tests are done to get cert. I know about the braking, heat sheld, wastegate has to be plumbed into exhaust but is there an emissions test? and do i need drive shaft loops? ( i havent done any thing to the drive train) do i need a fan cover and is there any clearances between intercooler piping and pullies?
Hi– in answer – the Emissions test is needed IF you have changed the engine, but NOT if you have modified an existing engine. The braking test is to do 3 stops from 100 kph, and some Holdens are a bit marginal. You might be OK if you fit high performance brake pads- a good brake shop should be able to advise. You WILL need Driveshaft safety loops, two if a two piece driveshaft, at the front end. Fan- you DO need a finger guard over the top of the fan. There are NO set clearances between intercooler piping and pulleys, it is just a matter of reliability- is it going to hit and damage something? Hope this helps
Hi John
I got a cerfio a31 just wondering if it is ok to cut another intercooler hole into where the battery goes (battery in boot now) as i have changed to a front facing intake plenum problem is the intercooler piping that was in before the piping went just above the siderails and the hole has no way of connecting to the intake yet i dont want to affect frontal damage what could be some options?
Thanks Martin
Hi John,
I have been restoring a 1973 Mitsubishi Galant Colt GTO. I have an SR20DET lined up ready do go into it and wondered if I should be looking at getting a pair of ‘Modern Brakes’ for the car aswell. As I am told that this is a good idea to get the engine/brakes all certed at the same time, due to the cost of certing it.
If so what kind of brakes would you recommend? And have you done something like this before? any tips? e.g. With repowering old classics with modern engines?
Thanks,
Craig
That an oldie! Why not use a Mitsi motor like a 4G63, it will be all Mitsubishi that way. The turbo motor will make that car a real handful, I would stick with a non-turbo motor just for safety.
The LVV Test is 3 or 5 stops from 100 k to 0, the standard brakes may just pass, but it would be far better to look for better ones. I don’t know what fits, but start with a Mitsi wrecker, and look for bigger discs and calipers from some later Mitsi, say an Eterna or Sigma. The best plan is to ask ask ask, there could be some stetup you can bolt on. If you need to adapt the calipers, its OK to get brackets made up, try to avoid welding, get them machined from a solid block.
I would suggest sticking with the standard rear brakes, it’s the fronts that do all the work, also you don’t want to end up with too much braking at the rear because you will get rear wheels locking, which is dangerous.
Whatever you can find, remember that you have to get a wheel over it- you might want to go to say 17″ wheels just to clear the calipers, remember that floating calipers need room to float. Don’t get trapped into needing spacers or adaptors just to clear the brakes- the wheels might look good sticking out, but too much offset basically stuffs up the steering and handling. Good luck, John
Hi John.
I have heard you can’t cert body swaps any more. Is this true? I am looking at putting a Hilux Cab onto a Nissan safari Chassis (1991 ish). Whats the story? My other option is to put the Nissan axles coils etc under the hilux chassis, but this seems like a lot more work. Any recommendations much appreciated. Thanks.
Arron.
We have been getting some strange rulings from the LVVTA lately. It will probaly be classed as a “Scratch Built” Vehicle, so you would need a Certifier with that category. Best you talk to a scratch-built Certifier first.
Dear Sir, I have a Rover SD1 2600 with a very tired motor which will need a complete overhaul. What would be required according to the regulators to fit a Toyota 5M-E motor and auto gearbox?
Yours sincerely,
DS
Is this a 5M-GE? This would be a simple swap to Certify, basically it comes down to common sense. The weight, power output, and size would be similar to the original engine, so no concerns there. I have no idea how the engine mounts line up, but if you make a sensible job, of (say) adapting the Toyota mounts to the Rover mouting points, and similar for the gearbox, there should be no issues. You would need to have the driveshaft modification done by a driveshaft specialist, produce the receipts, ALSO fit a Driveshaft safety loop. Exhaust Emissions: Keep the engine’s PCV valve and crankcase ventilation system. Catalytic Converter not needed. On-road Emissions test required, so keep the fuel system all standard for the engine. Regards John Brett
Hi John i spoke to you the other day thanks for the great info i forgot where you had mentioned to place the safety loops for the drive shaft and also i see on your other comments that a brake upgrade it not neccesary as the standard 4 stud skyline brake setups are ok but im planning on upgrading the turbo and putting a big front mount intercooler and upgrading the computer would i then require a brake upgrade to the 5 stud setup? and also will i be needing a catalytic converter for the exhaust system? i also intend on changing the seats to some aftermarket seats what are the requirements for the mounting? is there also a requirement for certing for bodykits?
Sorry i forgot to mention my questions are in relation a R32 Coup non turbo engine transplant form RB20DE to RB20DET thanks
Hi Elvis Peter- It is best to phone us and go through your vehicle. Safety loops have to be within 150mm of the front joint, of each section of driveshaft. Brake upgrade- The LVV Standard requires us to TEST the brakes- 3 or 5 stops from 100 kph. MY experience of Skylines is that the smaller brakes will pass, but obviously fitting the bgger brakes is better. You also have to meet the Exhaust gas Emissions standard, which requires a Cat, plus the standard crankcase ventilation system (no catch-cans) The Certifier has to do an onroad emissions test also. For seats, ther problems arise when rails are changed. The new rails may not be strong enough for the seatbelt buckle, so we ask you to bracket the buckle back to the floor mounting point of the seat. If your skyline is a 2 door, there needs to be a folding seat for access to the rear. Bodykits are not usually an issue, but a ‘frontal impact compliant car’ needs to retain all the front structure, bumper beam, etc, no changes to chassis rails. Hope this helps – John
See reply below, re access to rear seat.
Dear Sir, Thankyour for your reply regarding the repowering of a Rover SD1 2600, your advice is noted.
In answer to your query regarding the Toyota motor type, yes it is a 5M-E motor, SOHC,crossflow design from a 1981 “Cressida” rated at 145hp,8.8:1 comp. ratio,with a 4 speed auto.
The project is planned to be completed by December 2011.
Yours sincerely,
DS
hey i was thining of putting bonnet pins on my skyline, before i do it i was wondering if it would pass a warrent with them without getting a cert
cheers
Hi there, I’m looking at replacement diesel engine for my Nissan Terrano 93 D21 TD27T2 73kW. This is mechanical inj and all newer models are EFI, so I would need an ECU to run the pump ?
What are my limitations?
Can I use a QD3.2 110kW intercooled turbo from R50 or even R51 YD25 or do i need to stick with newer version of TD engine?
Thanks
Hi would I need to cert ke30 if I swop the 3k with a 5k ?
I cannot figure out what a 5K engine is. If you are fitting a different TYPE of engine you will need a LVV Cert. This includes changing to Turbo version. What exactly is the difference between a 3K and a 5K?
hi
Im about to fit an intercooler to my car was a sr20de s13,
- how much can i cut out of the crash bar?
- and can i make my own crash bar to fit around intercooler?
- do i need a catylitic converter as ive changed th engine to rb30det?
-ive also got a catch can (as ive changed inlet manifold) that vents to atmo is that certable?
cheers matt
the differance between the 5k and 3k is just the piston size the rest is pretty much the same from what i can see
Reply to matt- Sorry I didn’t reply earlier-
1 You can’t cut anything out of the crash bar. If your car is a frontal impact model you can’t modify the frontal impact structure in any way. This is because we don’t do crash-testing on customers cars.
2 If you change the engine, you need a cat, unless the car wasn’t built with one, or if the engine was not fitted with one.
Crankcase ventilation to atmosphere is not allowed, has to have the PCV Valve back into the manifold.
Hope this helps
John